Hypocrisy Religioncels (16 Viewers)

[FoidSlayer]

This is a real argument summed up with someone like 30 minutes ago

I ask them about god and why he let eve eat the apple if he knew what would happen since he's all knowing. I said doesn't that paint god in a bad picture, something evil.

They say, no eve chose to do that because God gave them free will. It would be the same as a person killing someone, god didn't make them do that they chose to out of free will.

I say, well you agreed that God is all knowing in my first argument so if he really is all knowing wouldn't he know the future? Making every human action predetermined therefore negating free will??

Then this is what they do: no argument, spamming random pictures and tell me to go do muhh research on the bible and then also calling me ugly.

Like bro

 

[hoodsickle]

Over for you if you follow a religion

 

[FoidSlayer]

Over for you if you follow a religion

Muhhh you're ugly cuz you don't believe in a made up God in the sky

 

[FoidSlayer]

XvideosDemon thoughts?

 

[Razi]

Knowing the event will occur doesn’t mean that the event will happen necessarily
Also some theists do believe that God’s knowledge depends on the future because the future doesn’t exist yet and theirs multiple paradoxes concerning omniscience so idk yet

 

[FoidSlayer]

Knowing the event will occur doesn’t mean that the event will happen necessarily
Also some theists do believe that God’s knowledge depends on the future because the future doesn’t exist yet and theirs multiple paradoxes concerning omniscience so idk yet

So many holes in logic and paradoxes surrounding this topic

 

[Razi]

So many holes in logic and paradoxes surrounding this topic

Yes. I remember Plantinga offering a good defense for free will but haven’t read much on him so I wouldn’t know

 

[hippocamp]

This is a real argument summed up with someone like 30 minutes ago

I ask them about god and why he let eve eat the apple if he knew what would happen since he's all knowing. I said doesn't that paint god in a bad picture, something evil.

They say, no eve chose to do that because God gave them free will. It would be the same as a person killing someone, god didn't make them do that they chose to out of free will.

I say, well you agreed that God is all knowing in my first argument so if he really is all knowing wouldn't he know the future? Making every human action predetermined therefore negating free will??

Then this is what they do: no argument, spamming random pictures and tell me to go do muhh research on the bible and then also calling me ugly.

Like bro

 

[hippocamp]

Knowing the event will occur doesn’t mean that the event will happen necessarily
Also some theists do believe that God’s knowledge depends on the future because the future doesn’t exist yet and theirs multiple paradoxes concerning omniscience so idk yet

If God has 100% accurate foresight, then every move you make is already hard coded into the timeline.

You aren't "choosing" you're just following a script that was written before you were even born. If the outcome is fixed free will is pretty much over

 

[hippocamp]

Honestly, eastern religions sometimes make much more sense than abrahamic religions, although all of them are flawed to some extent but i really like some dharmic & chinese philosophies that they preach in the name of religion

 

[FoidSlayer]

Honestly, eastern religions sometimes make much more sense than abrahamic religions, although all of them are flawed to some extent but i really like some dharmic & chinese philosophies that they preach in the name of religion

I think it's all flawed personally, just different coping mechanisms for stuff back then that was labeled unexplainable that is now explainable with new tech and science

 

[birthdefect]

This is a real argument summed up with someone like 30 minutes ago

I ask them about god and why he let eve eat the apple if he knew what would happen since he's all knowing. I said doesn't that paint god in a bad picture, something evil.

They say, no eve chose to do that because God gave them free will. It would be the same as a person killing someone, god didn't make them do that they chose to out of free will.

I say, well you agreed that God is all knowing in my first argument so if he really is all knowing wouldn't he know the future? Making every human action predetermined therefore negating free will??

Then this is what they do: no argument, spamming random pictures and tell me to go do muhh research on the bible and then also calling me ugly.

Like bro

this free will contradiction ive tried explaining to my dad ever since i was like maybe 13?
to this day i dont know the rebuttal
this is why zoroastrianism is the meta, they solve this kinda issue by not making god all powerful, thus he cant just erase evil

 

[eifrotorm11]

This is a real argument summed up with someone like 30 minutes ago

I ask them about god and why he let eve eat the apple if he knew what would happen since he's all knowing. I said doesn't that paint god in a bad picture, something evil.

They say, no eve chose to do that because God gave them free will. It would be the same as a person killing someone, god didn't make them do that they chose to out of free will.

I say, well you agreed that God is all knowing in my first argument so if he really is all knowing wouldn't he know the future? Making every human action predetermined therefore negating free will??

Then this is what they do: no argument, spamming random pictures and tell me to go do muhh research on the bible and then also calling me ugly.

Like bro

It is a logical contradiction to think that the knowledge of god equals to the neccesity of the act you can look up the boethian solution for this.

 

[dookiebootybutt59]

 

[Judenbänker]

I say, well you agreed that God is all knowing in my first argument so if he really is all knowing wouldn't he know the future? Making every human action predetermined therefore negating free will??

The worst argument against free will ever did you see this on r/atheism or something?
Youre literally being a fucking retard thinking knowledge is causation. Determinism/Predestination (actually does exist on catholic theology but only goes one way) is the necessitating of an event, unshared knowledge however does not influence others in the slightest. The knowledge is descriptive of an event while it's causation must be prescriptive. A simple logical experiment would be to think, if God hadn't known she would do it, would that have directly prevented her from doing it? No it wouldnt because the knowledge had no influence. Another thing is that God exist outside of time, while humans still live their actions in linear time, so it only seems preknowing to us because we lack the capability to leave linear time. Most church fathers also talked about the errors of fatalism/theological determinism(ie augustine, irenaenus, john of damascus).

Then this is what they do: no argument, spamming random pictures and tell me to go do muhh research on the bible and then also calling me ugly.

Like bro

Your whole argument lacks basic logical understanding

like bro

 

[Judenbänker]

this free will contradiction ive tried explaining to my dad ever since i was like maybe 13?
to this day i dont know the rebuttal

Because you probably never cared to make even the slightest research about it

 

[Scorpion]

Muhhh you're ugly cuz you don't believe in a made up God in the sky

its ironic because if he really does exist then he is the entire reason ur ugly

 

[Judenbänker]

its ironic because if he really does exist then he is the entire reason ur ugly

Indirectly

 

[birthdefect]

Because you probably never cared to make even the slightest research about it

what would explain it?

 

[i_blame_oxytocin]

in this world
is the destiny of mankind controlled by some transcendental entity or law
is it like the hand of god hovering above
at least it is true that man has no control even over his own will

 

[Judenbänker]

what would explain it?

The worst argument against free will ever did you see this on r/atheism or something?
Youre literally being a fucking retard thinking knowledge is causation. Determinism/Predestination (actually does exist on catholic theology but only goes one way) is the necessitating of an event, unshared knowledge however does not influence others in the slightest. The knowledge is descriptive of an event while it's causation must be prescriptive. A simple logical experiment would be to think, if God hadn't known she would do it, would that have directly prevented her from doing it? No it wouldnt because the knowledge had no influence. Another thing is that God exist outside of time, while humans still live their actions in linear time, so it only seems preknowing to us because we lack the capability to leave linear time. Most church fathers also talked about the errors of fatalism/theological determinism(ie augustine, irenaenus, john of damascus).

Your whole argument lacks basic logical understanding

like bro

 

[pua]

The worst argument against free will ever did you see this on r/atheism or something?
Youre literally being a fucking retard thinking knowledge is causation. Determinism/Predestination (actually does exist on catholic theology but only goes one way) is the necessitating of an event, unshared knowledge however does not influence others in the slightest. The knowledge is descriptive of an event while it's causation must be prescriptive. A simple logical experiment would be to think, if God hadn't known she would do it, would that have directly prevented her from doing it? No it wouldnt because the knowledge had no influence. Another thing is that God exist outside of time, while humans still live their actions in linear time, so it only seems preknowing to us because we lack the capability to leave linear time. Most church fathers also talked about the errors of fatalism/theological determinism(ie augustine, irenaenus, john of damascus).

Your whole argument lacks basic logical understanding

like bro

I was gonna say this as well. God knowing about the future doesn't negate free will like OP suggests. Just because he knows it doesn't mean he controls it and even if the event is predetermined that still doesn't conflict with the idea of free-will. Since you still willingly choose. Even if God knew you were gonna choose that option.

 

[goyboy.hero]

This is a real argument summed up with someone like 30 minutes ago

I ask them about god and why he let eve eat the apple if he knew what would happen since he's all knowing. I said doesn't that paint god in a bad picture, something evil.

They say, no eve chose to do that because God gave them free will. It would be the same as a person killing someone, god didn't make them do that they chose to out of free will.

I say, well you agreed that God is all knowing in my first argument so if he really is all knowing wouldn't he know the future? Making every human action predetermined therefore negating free will??

Then this is what they do: no argument, spamming random pictures and tell me to go do muhh research on the bible and then also calling me ugly.

Like bro

Js bc you know it's gonna happen doesn't mean they don't have free will

 

[goyboy.hero]

So many holes in logic and paradoxes surrounding this topic

More like so many things our human minds aren't able to comprehend

 

[paracelsus]

This is a real argument summed up with someone like 30 minutes ago

I ask them about god and why he let eve eat the apple if he knew what would happen since he's all knowing. I said doesn't that paint god in a bad picture, something evil.

They say, no eve chose to do that because God gave them free will. It would be the same as a person killing someone, god didn't make them do that they chose to out of free will.

I say, well you agreed that God is all knowing in my first argument so if he really is all knowing wouldn't he know the future? Making every human action predetermined therefore negating free will??

Then this is what they do: no argument, spamming random pictures and tell me to go do muhh research on the bible and then also calling me ugly.

Like bro

I’m not christian but I can debate you on this,
the story (as with pretty much every other fable in the bible) is allegorical so you’re not meant to take it at face value and you have to decipher the actual meaning. Gnostics believe that “God” in the story is the demiurge, yaldabaoth, and the serpent was Jesus telling Eve that they can escape the keroma which is the material world that the demiurge trapped everyone in. This can also be backed up more because the hebrew word used was ‘arum’ which can mean sneaky or sly but also can mean sensible, all throughout the book of proverbs it was translated to mean sensible. Also the whole ‘man in the sky’ argument is retarded, no one believes that and it doesn’t say that anywhere in the bible and same with the whole universe made in 7 days thing because the hebrew word used was ‘yom’ which translates to day but can also mean literally any period of time so in reality science and christianity don’t contradict each other since it doesn’t say adam and eve were the first people ever to exist, it says theyr were the first people designed in the image of God, also how come their kids found wives, that means that people already existed. It doesn’t even contradict evolution. Pls don’t dnr this x

 

[paracelsus]

this free will contradiction ive tried explaining to my dad ever since i was like maybe 13?
to this day i dont know the rebuttal
this is why zoroastrianism is the meta, they solve this kinda issue by not making god all powerful, thus he cant just erase evil

If all evil was erased, the people would just change the criteria on what evil means and it would be the same situation.
Good and evil are on the same line
it just depends on where you are on the line.
You can’t have one without the other
It is the hermetic law of polarity

 

[paracelsus]

Honestly, eastern religions sometimes make much more sense than abrahamic religions, although all of them are flawed to some extent but i really like some dharmic & chinese philosophies that they preach in the name of religion

abrahmic religions are copies of eastern, where do you think “abraham” comes from? The brahmins

 

[Syna]

Well, i honestly think there is absolutely fucking no one up there in the sky, but if there is, he surely isn't a good guy.

 

[Hexum]

This is a real argument summed up with someone like 30 minutes ago

I ask them about god and why he let eve eat the apple if he knew what would happen since he's all knowing. I said doesn't that paint god in a bad picture, something evil.

They say, no eve chose to do that because God gave them free will. It would be the same as a person killing someone, god didn't make them do that they chose to out of free will.

I say, well you agreed that God is all knowing in my first argument so if he really is all knowing wouldn't he know the future? Making every human action predetermined therefore negating free will??

Then this is what they do: no argument, spamming random pictures and tell me to go do muhh research on the bible and then also calling me ugly.

Like bro

God being all knowing does not negate free will because foreknowledge is not coercion. If I freely choose an action tomorrow, and God already knows what I will choose

 

[paracelsus]

Well, i honestly think there is absolutely fucking no one up there in the sky, but if there is, he surely isn't a good guy.

/
Saturn ruler of time and money
Also a hermaphrodite like baphomet
That’s why the jews love their transgenderism

 

[Syna]

/
Saturn ruler of time and money
Also a hermaphrodite like baphomet
That’s why the jews love their transgenderism

 

[paracelsus]

View attachment 47698

accurate (apart from the nose) these jewish chads just do whatever they want

 

[fent]

this free will contradiction ive tried explaining to my dad ever since i was like maybe 13?
to this day i dont know the rebuttal
this is why zoroastrianism is the meta, they solve this kinda issue by not making god all powerful, thus he cant just erase evil

Weird insight but you're probally one of the weirdest users on .gg,
You're smart and insightful but at the same time its almost like you dont think at all; pretty hard to explain.

 

[birthdefect]

If all evil was erased, the people would just change the criteria on what evil means and it would be the same situation.
Good and evil are on the same line
it just depends on where you are on the line.
You can’t have one without the other
It is the hermetic law of polarity

if you removed all evil how could you change the criteria to still fit something? you'd have to turn virtue into vice would you not?

Weird insight but you're probally one of the weirdest users on .gg,
You're smart and insightful but at the same time its almost like you dont think at all; pretty hard to explain.

nah i just dont think
but zoroastrianism is still the meta, although i could just be saying that because i have no prior context with it

 

[birthdefect]

abrahmic religions are copies of eastern, where do you think “abraham” comes from? The brahmins

doesnt work linguistically but maybe just memeing

Because you probably never cared to make even the slightest research about it

yea you're right
i prefer to speak to people than read their past thoughts

The worst argument against free will ever did you see this on r/atheism or something?
Youre literally being a fucking retard thinking knowledge is causation. Determinism/Predestination (actually does exist on catholic theology but only goes one way) is the necessitating of an event, unshared knowledge however does not influence others in the slightest. The knowledge is descriptive of an event while it's causation must be prescriptive. A simple logical experiment would be to think, if God hadn't known she would do it, would that have directly prevented her from doing it? No it wouldnt because the knowledge had no influence. Another thing is that God exist outside of time, while humans still live their actions in linear time, so it only seems preknowing to us because we lack the capability to leave linear time. Most church fathers also talked about the errors of fatalism/theological determinism(ie augustine, irenaenus, john of damascus).

Your whole argument lacks basic logical understanding

like bro

its not really just unshared knowledge tho is it? like yea it isnt spread to anyone so in theory it doesnt influence them but that doesnt mean they were given any other choice
sure, god didnt make you directly do it
but god already knows what will happen, and god is guaranteed to be correct right?
so what else can happen? even if you arent directly forced to do something, every other option is guaranteed to not occur as god knows they wont occur and gods knowledge is always correct

 

[hellokitty]

This is a real argument summed up with someone like 30 minutes ago

I ask them about god and why he let eve eat the apple if he knew what would happen since he's all knowing. I said doesn't that paint god in a bad picture, something evil.

They say, no eve chose to do that because God gave them free will. It would be the same as a person killing someone, god didn't make them do that they chose to out of free will.

I say, well you agreed that God is all knowing in my first argument so if he really is all knowing wouldn't he know the future? Making every human action predetermined therefore negating free will??

Then this is what they do: no argument, spamming random pictures and tell me to go do muhh research on the bible and then also calling me ugly.

Like bro

he knows the future but he doesn't control your future thus you have free will
by the way god is not all knowing. there are many gods and they have different opinion on things

 

[hellokitty]

The worst argument against free will ever did you see this on r/atheism or something?
Youre literally being a fucking retard thinking knowledge is causation. Determinism/Predestination (actually does exist on catholic theology but only goes one way) is the necessitating of an event, unshared knowledge however does not influence others in the slightest. The knowledge is descriptive of an event while it's causation must be prescriptive. A simple logical experiment would be to think, if God hadn't known she would do it, would that have directly prevented her from doing it? No it wouldnt because the knowledge had no influence. Another thing is that God exist outside of time, while humans still live their actions in linear time, so it only seems preknowing to us because we lack the capability to leave linear time. Most church fathers also talked about the errors of fatalism/theological determinism(ie augustine, irenaenus, john of damascus).

Your whole argument lacks basic logical understanding

like bro

Over for you if you follow a religion

Knowing the event will occur doesn’t mean that the event will happen necessarily
Also some theists do believe that God’s knowledge depends on the future because the future doesn’t exist yet and theirs multiple paradoxes concerning omniscience so idk yet

this free will contradiction ive tried explaining to my dad ever since i was like maybe 13?
to this day i dont know the rebuttal
this is why zoroastrianism is the meta, they solve this kinda issue by not making god all powerful, thus he cant just erase evil

View attachment 47615

gods don't really care whats happening in humans society they only care about sacrifices and rituals but not if someone ate an apple or did not lol

 

[paracelsus]

if you removed all evil how could you change the criteria to still fit something? you'd have to turn virtue into vice would you not?

if only good existed and not evil, people would arrange themselves from ‘most good’ to ‘least good’ and then the least good people would be persecuted

 

[hellokitty]

if only good existed and not evil, people would arrange themselves from ‘most good’ to ‘least good’ and then the least good people would be persecuted

augustinus spoke about this

 

[paracelsus]

augustinus spoke about this

i thought of it at a sleepover when i was 5 actually