Brutal estrogen bloat (1 Viewer)

[surgerymax]

Up 14kg in 3-4 weeks and i just look obese atp

I was awake all day and my parents asked if i just woke up , brutal fucking water retention , I need some emergency DNP

Moral of the story : high dose tren will make you obese

Even 12mg tirz and 6mg reta wasn’t curbing my appetite and i was eating even when i wanted to throw up , this shit literally gave me an ED , now just have to starve until my stomach shrinks again

 

[Judenbänker]

correlation to estrogen?

 

[surgerymax]

correlation to estrogen?

Tren made me fat , started aromatising way more , became a watery pig

 

[Judenbänker]

Tren made me fat , started aromatising way more , became a watery pig

hm
are you sure it was the tren making you fat and not just your lack of control

 

[Syna]

Up 14kg in 3-4 weeks

Holy fuck.

 

[surgerymax]

hm
are you sure it was the tren making you fat and not just your lack of control

the point is the tren driving dopamine seeking behaviours , ie things like binging on food , i had no issues at all dieting before but yes of course it was ultimately my choice

 

[surgerymax]

Holy fuck.

at least can’t be TOO much actual fat , maybe 5kg at absolute most

 

[Judenbänker]

the point is the tren driving dopamine seeking behaviours , ie things like binging on food

couldve gotten it from somewhere else
14kg in a month is fucking fat and i havent met a single other tren user having these problems

 

[Syna]

the point is the tren driving dopamine seeking behaviours , ie things like binging on food , i had no issues at all dieting before but yes of course it was ultimately my choice

Yeah the Dopamine, Serotonin, Epinephrine, Norepinephrine, GABA, Progesterone and basically every fucking receptor dysregualtion from tren is crazy, brutal CNS rape.

 

[surgerymax]

couldve gotten it from somewhere else
14kg in a month is fucking fat and i havent met a single other tren user having these problems

This is not an uncommon tren experience whatsoever , i could find dozens more

 

[Syna]

This is not an uncommon tren experience whatsoever , i could find dozens more

Dopamine Epinephrine, Norepinephrine, GABA-A and Progesterone receptor dysregulation resulting in appetite over stimulation maybe?

 

[surgerymax]

Yeah the Dopamine, Serotonin, Epinephrine, Norepinephrine, GABA, Progesterone and basically every fucking receptor dysregualtion from tren is crazy, brutal CNS rape.

I think tesofensine should help with this

Im now doing just 40 tren and just tanking the hunger to try shrink my stomach

Just eating 1k cals a day , on 12mg of tirz but ultimately nothing is really going to fill blunt the ghrelin going from 3-4k cals to 1k immediately just need to starve for a bit

 

[Syna]

I think tesofensine should help with this

Im now doing just 40 tren and just tanking the hunger to try shrink my stomach

Just eating 1k cals a day , on 12mg of tirz but ultimately nothing is really going to fill blunt the ghrelin going from 3-4k cals to 1k immediately just need to starve for a bit

Yeah tapering off should suffice to control the appetite overstimulation.

 

[Syna]

Dopamine receptor dysregulation resulting in appetite over stimulation maybe?

Only way it would make sense cause besides that tren will do if anything all the opposite to making you fat mechanistically speaking.

 

[surgerymax]

Yeah tapering off should suffice to control the appetite overstimulation.

there’s definitely a lotttt of water too besides the obvious weight being impossible to be from pure fat in that time

My legs have legit edema when i elevate them i can feel the water move

 

[surgerymax]

Only way it would make sense cause besides that tren will do if anything all the opposite to making you fat mechanistically speaking.

Of course there’s the thermogenic effect but that is raising ur tdee nowhere near enough to warrant this much appetite , it’s definitely something psychological and maybe some undiscovered mechanisms considering even GLP1s don’t shut it down

The compound is also just far too valuable on a cut so i’m just kinda at a loss for what to do , gonna just have to tank the starving for a bit and hope my stomach shrinks

 

[Syna]

Of course there’s the thermogenic effect but that is raising ur tdee nowhere near enough to warrant this much appetite , it’s definitely something psychological and maybe some undiscovered mechanisms considering even GLP1s don’t shut it down

The compound is also just far too valuable on a cut so i’m just kinda at a loss for what to do , gonna just have to tank the starving for a bit and hope my stomach shrinks

My best guess it's the CNS overstimulation, specifically dopamine epinephrine, norepinephrine and GABA, receptor dysregulation, maybe reta is just not potent enough to control the dysregulation of the receptors

 

[surgerymax]

My best guess it's the CNS overstimulation, specifically dopamine epinephrine, norepinephrine and GABA, receptor dysregulation, maybe reta is just not potent enough to control the dysregulation of the receptors

i’ve tried tirz at very high doses , maybe need some sema atp

This is my current theory at least

Tren is a potent androgen with very high AR affinity.
Androgens upregulate NPY/AgRP neurons in the arcuate nucleus and these are the same neurons GLP1 agonists try to suppress via GLP1R/GIPR signalling

I’ve also been using GLP1s chronically atp so they do feel weaker , maybe need to come off for a month or so

 

[Syna]

i’ve tried tirz at very high doses , maybe need some sema atp

This is my current theory at least

Tren is a potent androgen with very high AR affinity.
Androgens upregulate NPY/AgRP neurons in the arcuate nucleus and these are the same neurons GLP1 agonists try to suppress via GLP1R/GIPR signalling

I’ve also been using GLP1s chronically atp so they do feel weaker , maybe need to come off for a month or so

The ones that control and regulate reward seeking behaviour.

Maybe your brain is desensitized to GLP-1s and also the massive tren doses are overriding the GLP1s effect neurologically.

If i was you i would just lower the dose a lot and maybe stop the GLP1s for some time, to make everything go back to "baseline" if possible.

 

[Syna]

Tren is a potent androgen with very high AR affinity.

Yeah humans have ARs in the brain as well, reason why some brain parts can even experience growth or hyperthrophy as well overtime, (for example the hypothalamus, amygdala (specially the amygdala has on the highest AR densities out of all other brain parts), hippocampus etc)

 

[surgerymax]

The ones that control and regulate reward seeking behaviour.

Maybe your brain is desensitized to GLP-1s and also the massive tren doses are overriding the GLP1s effect neurologically.

If i was you i would just lower the dose a lot and maybe stop the GLP1s for some time, to make everything go back to "baseline" if possible.

yes the GLP1s are getting outcompeted to complete death

Rn I'm doing 250 test 40mg tren

But it seems even 40mg tren is enough to massively saturate receptors (extrapolating kind of animal data here) but in this heifer study (the heifers weighing 265 - 290kg)

The feed efficacy stopped increasing after 140mg , can kinda imagine what the dosing would be like for humans needed to massively saturate receptors , even 20 - 50 mg would probably be nearing saturated if not saturated , there is no actual data to support these body builders running comical doses and any claims about making more gains at higher doses is purely anecdotal , i think for people like me who seem to have this issue pretty much any dose of tren is gonna be an issue and i might have to run anavar instead

 

[Syna]

yes the GLP1s are getting outcompeted to complete death

Rn I'm doing 250 test 40mg tren

But it seems even 40mg tren is enough to massively saturate receptors (extrapolating kind of animal data here) but in this heifer study (the heifers weighing 265 - 290kg)

The feed efficacy stopped increasing after 140mg , can kinda imagine what the dosing would be like for humans needed to massively saturate receptors , even 20 - 50 mg would probably be nearing saturated if not saturated , there is no actual data to support these body builders running comical doses and any claims about making more gains at higher doses is purely anecdotal , i think for people like me who seem to have this issue pretty much any dose of tren is gonna be an issue and i might have to run anavar instead

View attachment 52433

I'd say taper off to 10-20mgs a week, if it persists drop it completely.

 

[Syna]

yes the GLP1s are getting outcompeted to complete death

Rn I'm doing 250 test 40mg tren

But it seems even 40mg tren is enough to massively saturate receptors (extrapolating kind of animal data here) but in this heifer study (the heifers weighing 265 - 290kg)

The feed efficacy stopped increasing after 140mg , can kinda imagine what the dosing would be like for humans needed to massively saturate receptors , even 20 - 50 mg would probably be nearing saturated if not saturated , there is no actual data to support these body builders running comical doses and any claims about making more gains at higher doses is purely anecdotal , i think for people like me who seem to have this issue pretty much any dose of tren is gonna be an issue and i might have to run anavar instead

View attachment 52433

Well if a mammal that is way fucking bigger than a human hits a hard ceiling of diminishing returns on feed efficiency at 140 mg of Tren A i think it might be safe to assume this will work similar for humans like you said.

I agree we can't say 100% for sure cause we have very minimal data, mechanism and animal data extrapolations are the best we can do, but your theory makes total sense to me.

What we know is that cows and humans have very very similar AR proteins and their whole system works in very similar ways (both have aromatase enzymes and 5ar and so on) as in both cows and humans, ARs density is concentrated in similar tissues (skeletal muscles, bones, and reproductive organs) , so we can only assume human AR receptors saturate at a way lower dosage than cows, at the end of the day we are way way way smaller mammals, i guess the dose behaviour is the same or similar to the tranquilizer doses used in bigger mammals vs humans, a human tranquilizer dose won't do shit for cows and horses but an animal tranquilizer dose on humans will probably fucking kill you (look at with a lil nuance cause this is an oversimplification of a system).

I also think while muscle tissue hits a point of diminishing returns compared to the dosage, the CNS might not scale/ behave linearly compared to skeletal muscles, cause at the super high binding affinities of tren (3x-5x stronger than test) (that without taking into account what it immediately does to your nervous system) is a lot of potency to hypertrophy the hypothalamus and amygdala and other sensitive brain regions.

 

[the wizard]

Up 14kg in 3-4 weeks and i just look obese atp

I was awake all day and my parents asked if i just woke up , brutal fucking water retention , I need some emergency DNP

Moral of the story : high dose tren will make you obese

Even 12mg tirz and 6mg reta wasn’t curbing my appetite and i was eating even when i wanted to throw up , this shit literally gave me an ED , now just have to starve until my stomach shrinks again

i mean yes, weren’t u a proponent of micro dosing tren, why are u using it in high doses, yeah dnp is prolly ur only option if tirz and reta aren’t doing anything, what about diet suppressants like ephedrine? i know its a stimulant and that can have some effects but it could curb ur appetite

 

[Syna]

yes the GLP1s are getting outcompeted to complete death

Maybe in a similar way to "melatonin to counteract the trensomnia". it doesn't matter how much melatonin you take on tren it won't fix the hypocretin upregulation and melatonin production crash from tren, it might not be dose dependant the mechanism / pathway might just not be possible to counteract at super high doses of tren with GLP1s.

 

[surgerymax]

i mean yes, weren’t u a proponent of micro dosing tren, why are u using it in high doses, yeah dnp is prolly ur only option if tirz and reta aren’t doing anything, what about diet suppressants like ephedrine? i know its a stimulant and that can have some effects but it could curb ur appetite

Stims rape my HR quite bad , clen seems to curb my appetite decently already though

 

[surgerymax]

i mean yes, weren’t u a proponent of micro dosing tren, why are u using it in high doses, yeah dnp is prolly ur only option if tirz and reta aren’t doing anything, what about diet suppressants like ephedrine? i know its a stimulant and that can have some effects but it could curb ur appetite

yes im anti high dose tren , im only on 40mg now which is still a very meaningful dose of tren

 

[Syna]

Maybe in a similar way to "melatonin to counteract the trensomnia". it doesn't matter how much melatonin you take on tren it won't fix the hypocretin upregulation and melatonin production crash from tren, it might not be dose dependant the mechanism / pathway might just not be possible to counteract at super high doses of tren with GLP1s.

i worded it terribly read it again jfl @surgerymax

 

[the wizard]

Stims rape my HR quite bad , clen seems to curb my appetite decently already though

yeah, imma be honest shrooms could prolly help ur apetite, one time me and my friends were able to convince this one guy on shrooms to be afraid of soda, and he was for a while after the trip, and needed to see a therapist abt it, i think shrooms could help because it opens the mind to suggestion more easily, which you could try to use to suppress your appetite in a psychological manner

 

[surgerymax]

yeah, imma be honest shrooms could prolly help ur apetite, one time me and my friends were able to convince this one guy on shrooms to be afraid of soda, and he was for a while after the trip, and needed to see a therapist abt it, i think shrooms could help because it opens the mind to suggestion more easily, which you could try to use to suppress your appetite in a psychological manner

i just need to let go off this tren...
I have some attachment to this drug its like heroin i swear

 

[the wizard]

yes im anti high dose tren , im only on 40mg now which is still a very meaningful dose of tren

yes, is ur ancillary stack the same as ur guide?

 

[surgerymax]

Maybe in a similar way to "melatonin to counteract the trensomnia". it doesn't matter how much melatonin you take on tren it won't fix the hypocretin upregulation and melatonin production crash from tren, it might not be dose dependant the mechanism / pathway might just not be possible to counteract at super high doses of tren with GLP1s.

Possibly , theres just 0 data , ive seen alotttt of people come forward with this same anecdote though that their GLP1s just feel completely non existent on tren , something that needs to be explored but wont be for obvious reasons

 

[surgerymax]

yes, is ur ancillary stack the same as ur guide?

No there's more

 

[the wizard]

i just need to let go off this tren...
I have some attachment to this drug its like heroin i swear

i mean, is it physically addicting?

No there's more

also, try concerta for appetite suppression, i have heart rate stimulant issues aswell, and my doctor told me abt concerta, and i unintentionally lost a bit of fat, around a year or two ago, when i still used big pharma for my stimulant supply. try concerta

 

[Syna]

Possibly , theres just 0 data , ive seen alotttt of people come forward with this same anecdote though that their GLP1s just feel completely non existent on tren , something that needs to be explored but wont be for obvious reasons

I guess we might've underestimated the effects of tren on the CNS, specially from a psychological standpoint.

 

[the wizard]

I guess we might've underestimated the effects of tren on the CNS, specially from a psychological standpoint.

it exhibits high toxicity to cns cells by speeding up their apoptosis and it increases amyloid accumulation, a chemical linked to alzheimer’s the latter only being observed in animal studies however

 

[Syna]

it exhibits high toxicity to cns cells by speeding up their mytosis and it increases amyloid accumulation, a chemical linked to alzheimer’s the latter only being observed in animal studies however

You mean cellular aptoposis?

 

[the wizard]

You mean cellular aptoposis?

yes, my bad, i can’t think straight thanks to a allergy induced migraine, shoutout ragweed and pollen

 

[surgerymax]

i mean, is it physically addicting?

also, try concerta for appetite suppression, i have heart rate stimulant issues aswell, and my doctor told me abt concerta, and i unintentionally lost a bit of fat, around a year or two ago, when i still used big pharma for my stimulant supply. try concerta

no i just feel like im missing out on soo much value when cutting if i dont run at least micro doses of tren the roi is just so good

Yeah ive tried ritalin , its just quite hard to get in the UK

 

[the wizard]

no i just feel like im missing out on soo much value when cutting if i dont run at least micro doses of tren the roi is just so good

the roi is great, and that’s why tren is a great compound, and yeah it is kind of irreplaceable in terms of functionality. what are you cutting to?

 

[the wizard]

no i just feel like im missing out on soo much value when cutting if i dont run at least micro doses of tren the roi is just so good

Yeah ive tried ritalin , its just quite hard to get in the UK

yeah, the extended release dosages are mostly found in the US, if you could get them i think it would help

 

[Nardicus]

yeah dnp is prolly ur only option if tirz and reta aren’t doing anything, what about diet suppressants like ephedrine? i know its a stimulant and that can have some effects but it could curb ur appetite

doing tren with DNP made me suicidal
dropped it for that reason I knew it would make me tweak out with clen, but I tweaked out More.

Even 12mg tirz and 6mg reta

Ngl, if your eating this much you might as well add slin n put thoose carbs to use n not to waste.

his shit literally gave me an ED

ED from elevated estrodial ? or high dose GLP-1 ?

I have some attachment to this drug its like heroin i swear

Tren is a nootropic that made me more confident than pregab

yeah, the extended release dosages are mostly found in the US, if you could get them i think it would help

Ritalin stops hitting the same so quickly

Vyvanse, IR addy does the trick for me tho I hate reaching for them

 

[nikolozzz]

Up 14kg in 3-4 weeks and i just look obese atp

I was awake all day and my parents asked if i just woke up , brutal fucking water retention , I need some emergency DNP

Moral of the story : high dose tren will make you obese

Even 12mg tirz and 6mg reta wasn’t curbing my appetite and i was eating even when i wanted to throw up , this shit literally gave me an ED , now just have to starve until my stomach shrinks again

Oh boy

 

[surgerymax]

doing tren with DNP made me suicidal
dropped it for that reason I knew it would make me tweak out with clen, but I tweaked out More.



Ngl, if your eating this much you might as well add slin n put thoose carbs to use n not to waste.


ED from elevated estrodial ? or high dose GLP-1 ?

Tren is a nootropic that made me more confident than pregab

Suicidal from hunger ?

Slin lowk scares me tbh , i know im too lazy to run that shit , would probably kms with it

ED as in eating disorder

 

[surgerymax]

the roi is great, and that’s why tren is a great compound, and yeah it is kind of irreplaceable in terms of functionality. what are you cutting to?

cutting from 67kg to 52kg ish

Not worried about the scale too much honestly though , just when i’m happy with how lean i am

 

[the wizard]

doing tren with DNP made me suicidal
dropped it for that reason I knew it would make me tweak out with clen, but I tweaked out More.



Ngl, if your eating this much you might as well add slin n put thoose carbs to use n not to waste.


ED from elevated estrodial ? or high dose GLP-1 ?

Tren is a nootropic that made me more confident than pregab

Ritalin stops hitting the same so quickly

Vyvanse, IR addy does the trick for me tho I hate reaching for them

in my opinion the extended release ritalin is great for leanmaxxing, it does lose its touch with the immediate release tho

 

[Nardicus]

Suicidal from hunger ?

DNP + Tren makes sleeping even with DORA's next to impossible

I feel wired but tired 24/7, and tren exaggerates thoose feeling's and I started over thinking
im always on the edge, but I only tried it for one day n couldnt tolerate the combo so I just dropped tren
n only doing clen and DNP for now, wish it could work since I also understand the benefits on tren on minimizing muscle waste but it is what it is.

 

[Nardicus]

Slin lowk scares me tbh , i know im too lazy to run that shit , would probably kms with it

Yea I felt that, its not for everyone unless your going full out gymcel n dont GAF n are willing to track every gram of carb n do timing
especially if your on GLP timing because more important so I have a CGM (Continuos Glucose Monitor) to somewhat help with that

 

[atrophicpyra]

This is not an uncommon tren experience whatsoever , i could find dozens more

Oh so now anecdotes count? Very biased forum

 

[surgerymax]

Oh so now anecdotes count? Very biased forum

Complete different context